Are You In The Music Business?
Or Just Involved In Music?
Interview Series #2.
Featuring Martin Winch of Green Noise Records
CC: Howdy Winch! Could you start off by telling the readers a little bit about yourself and Green Noise Records? How did you come to acquire it and what connected us?
MW: Hey thanks, glad for the invite. You are part of us, and glad to be here talking about all that. That’s what it’s all about.
What about me? I was almost born in Cleveland, but finally saw the light of day in New York, but spent most of my first 30 years in various locations in southern Michigan, moved to Oregon in the late 1990s, and of course had to check out the record stores, walked into Green Noise and the rest is history. Immediately thought this is the best record store I’d ever found. Ryder was my age and liked everything I liked, and I asked Ryder if I could sell all my records upstairs in the loft, and he said sure. Then, shortly after, he asked me if I wanted to work on weekends, and then I ended up working at Green Noise every weekend for about 20 years. During that time, Ryder sold Green Noise to Ken of Dirtnap fame, and Ken kept it a long time, sold it to Gary of Accident Prone, and Gary sold it to me about 7 years ago. I still had my day job so I couldn’t keep the store open so I made it into a mailorder.
CC: Do you have an overall opinion of the music business? If so, what is it?
MW: I only know that punk side of things, and it rules. The customers are great, and the bands are great, and everyone I work with is great. And if they aren’t, then I just move on. I never really cared about the big business side of music, so I’m pretty ignorant of all that, and that’s fine. I like to focus on the good junk -- and the punk side of things is the good stuff. Punk needs to think about so much if it’s going to be inclusive, but I’ve always been about finding something that has some hope, staying committed, and working to make something good even better.
CC: You carry titles from all over the world but definitely have an affinity for your Portland-area bands. How long have you been in Portland and how did you get involved in the music scene?
MW: While I still think of myself as a Michigander because so much of me was formed there, moving to Oregon in the late 1990s has been so important. When I was growing up, I was crazy about the bands nobody knew about, but I’d missed most of the 1980s and much of the 1990s, being a dirt-poor single parent and working industrial jobs, but kept track of the underground with one-sheet catalogs and zines that places around the country would send me. They kept me connected to a community remotely, and that has a huge effect on how I run Green Noise. It goes way back.
As a teenager, a tiny station with a few miles reach turned me on to all the great underground bands, and that also has a big effect on how I run Green Noise. I grew up exactly halfway between Detroit and Chicago, got into great shows in relatively small venues for about $6, and outdoor festivals with lesser known bands for about $3. That shaped me in a big way, but once I found the joy of punk shows, I was hooked for life. After I moved to Oregon, and my kids grew up and moved out, I was out at a punk show every night: Satyricon, EJ’s, backyards, basements, warehouses...and that was like a second childhood to me, and then on the weekend during the day I ended up working at Green Noise.
CC: Although primarily known for punk and punk-adjacent music, what other genres do you specialize in? Do you think there’s a certain similar punk aesthetic to the other genre titles you carry in any way?
MW: Yes, definitely. It all does have something in common, a lot in common, and that's important because it all goes back to Indigenous people all over this continent -- all over this world -- came from many places especially from places in Africa and came together in places like New Orleans and Latin American, from Black musicians and other Indigenous people, grew like a tree where the Great Migration spread its branches...not just all the key elements of the songs, but the idea of community, indie labels...all that went down before the 1950s even rolled around. Sometimes I might stock something reflective or whatever because I know of a few Green Noise customers might want it, and sometimes I just think, what the hell, this band took the trouble to make a record against all odds, and I should try to support that, but Green Noise is guided by punk and also hopefully by where it came from, both with the music Green Noise carries and hopefully the way it carries itself and the way it operates…or that’s the ideal that pulls me back when I'm getting too full of myself or thinking selfishly or buying too many records.
It’s important to point out that it’s all maximum rhythm and blues…punk, rock 'n' roll, funk, groove, garage…and really that’s always been the only music that's really interested me: maximum rhythm and blues, music that charges forward with repetition, focuses on the song…whether it’s punk, funk, latin, garage… To me, some music seems to wobble to and fro, or step forward and then step back, or delves in reflection or detours into excess and, that’s great for some, but it usually bores me. I don't like most blues, unless it’s fast rhythm and blues. We all might need some doses of reflection in our music, or at least I do once in a while, but for the most part, gimme music that charges forward, hits me with repetition in the heart, that’s the junk that interests me, that gets my face grinning, heart thumping, and toes tapping. I don't need to love everything that Green Noise offers, but if I'm going to stay passionate and excited... Green Noise offers some variety to keep it interesting, but stays focused on the punk, musically speaking, maximum rhythm and blues…PUNK, some funk, and a bit of some other junk.
CC: What are the financial realities of your business? Is Green Noise a full-time business or a secondary business? Do you even consider it a business or more of a passion project?
MW: While I work full time at Green Noise, and when I retire from my other job in the near future, it'll be double time at Green Noise, it's definitely a passion project. But this separation of one or the other is some complicated junk and worth talking about...my whole life I've listened to people complain about the price of art...some say shows should be free or a few bucks, and who doesn't love a cheap show. They've always been my favorite, and I appreciate the drive to keep the commerce out of the music scene, but people who get too entrenched in that mentality -- or any mentality -- can also really get me passionately pissed off because the idea that shows should be free or dirt-cheap can definitely be an elitist viewpoint...and if that wasn't bad enough, elitist inherently becomes racist. People need housing. Housing is expensive. People need money. People who have been historically stomped on and fucked over need money for the time spent working on stuff, anything. But then to complicate matters even more, expensive art of course also becomes elitist with seats at shows reserved only for people of privilege...and not only that, the whole thing becomes corrupt. And art is for everyone, so I completely support the backyard shows and basement shows and dive shows and warehouse shows, passionately all that, along with all the labels, bands, and everyone else just doing it for reasons that have nothing to do with commerce. And if someone has privilege or some temporary access to some spare scratch and spends that money to support art, start a label, host a show, give a band some gas money, buy some merch, get gift certificates from some local store and pass them out to friends…good for you. But folks need to be careful about getting too self-righteous or critical of others. Some people need to make money to survive, and if we want music from those people -- and we need music from those people -- so we need to support them, or at least not judge them.
Sometimes I just think, what the hell, this band took the trouble to make a record against all odds, and I should try to support that.
CC: As vinyl has become more expensive to produce, some bands are opting for cassettes and/or CDs. How have those formats done for you in the past and do you see Green Noise carrying more of those format selections in the future?
MW: Tapes are great for so many obvious reasons, mostly because affordability for the band and the fan. Plus they tend to sound fucking great. They don't come close to the devastating crunch and inviting warmth of an eight-track, but they tend to sound great. And if the nostalgic aspect makes you happy and gets you supporting bands, that's great to me. I also like the idea of not opting for something new just because it comes along, and that's another reason to support tapes. And if you make tapes, every song needs to count. Save the bogus bonus cuts for downloads and compact discs. Cassette needs to be concise because nobody wants to have to hit the fast forward button. And they often focus on the raw and less serious junk. And the tapes themselves can't be taken too serious. So they rule. But I hate them. I don't want to yuck on your yum and spoil all the fun, and really it has a lot to do with the fact that I'm still mad about how they started designing 8-tracks poorly to manipulate buyers over to the inferior cassette tape. It sounds like a conspiracy, but it's true,. It benefited the industry in two ways.
But I need to be passionate about the junk, and I love records so much, and I don't need to sell every format or everything. So I'll never sell tapes. Well, never say never, but I focus on records. And speaking of focusing, I purposely don't sell T-shirts so hopefully you'll get out to see a show and get a shirt from the band, a shirt that fits you. And speaking of CDs, everyone should probably know how much I hate those things...but I don't. I love them. I can tell you 10 reasons, but I’ll spare you the details. I have no interest in listening to CDs at home, but love listening to them in the car. While the sound is inferior, they are like space-age versions of the 8-track. I can click between songs and have fun. And I remember how much the CDs helped bands and everyone else involved make a little money. So Green Noise will always have CDs. Mostly records, some CDs.
CC: What have you enjoyed the most about running Green Noise? What sorts of lessons have you learned or insights have you gained?
MW: I love everything about running Green Noise. When I was young, they said do what you love for your job and you’ll love your job or something like that. That was bullcrap. I love walking hand-in-hand with my wife through a mountain field with my dogs running beside me, but nobody is going to pay me good money to do that. I tried making money with photography and hated it -- and was smart enough to stop before I started hating photography. But everyone who knows me knows that I was made to run Green Noise. I love it. I’m just doing what I’ve always done, having a blast finding music and sharing it with others. That’s what I do. Build the building, build the bridges. If I died today without making a cent from running Green Noise that would be fine because I help bands find fans, and help fans find bands.
CC: Finally, what does the future look like for Green Noise? You told me about the Betty Club, I think it would be cool if you mentioned that to the readers out there.
MW: Green Noise will be with me until I die and then it will continue without me. I planned to wait until I retired from my teaching job before resurrecting Green Noise the label, but when folks like Steve Lucas from X in Australia and Sonny Vincent from Testors specifically wanted me to release some of the best music from the past 50 years, I knew I couldn’t wait. When Dead Moon has two unreleased covers that’ll make a great 7”, count me in.
But, mostly, I focus on helping the other great small labels get their records to the people. I already think that Green Noise is the greatest online record store that has ever existed in the history of the world -- or at the very least one of the best in Clackamas, Oregon -- and it will just get better and better as I wind down my teaching career and focus on Green Noise. While the dream of reopening a brick 'n' mortar is always in my thoughts, I’m happy with the way it is, and while I always remember how important the record stores of my youth were, I also remember the importance of places I connected with more remotely: dialed into WIDR as a teenager, calling in to ask questions and make requests, and then in the 1980s staying connected with the underground scene through mailorder catalogs and zines. I think of all that when I’m doing all this. I dream of reopening the brick 'n' mortar but with the price of rent and real estate, I know that might not happen and -- while I’ll be so happy if that happens -- I’ll be so happy if it just continues as it is. It’s a dream come true.
